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Thread: The Value of Vinyl

  1. #1
    Nick in Toronto's Avatar
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    The Value of Vinyl

    There has been a good deal of discussion about the quality of vinyl vs. the quality of CDs.

    With regards to the actual $ value of vinyl, it should be noted by the newer members that they have very little value when it comes to selling them or buying them in 2007. And the greater the size of the collection; the less each item is worth if they are just counted. This was explained to me (at length) by a record dealer who supplied me with so many of the "Promo" 45EPs, and 45 singles that were not yet released on CD in the early 1980s. (He made buying trips to Europe twice a year, and purchased the libraries of AM and FM record stations that were changing formats.)

    So, don't confuse value with market price when shopping. Rare records are really "rare" today.

    With the Frank Sinatra catelog, there are four mainstream labels:

    Columbia. All of their catelog plus the V-Discs are, or have been re-issued by Charles Granada in forms superior to any of the 78s or early 10inch albums, so purchasing anything other than the LEGACY CD versions buys you only a conversation piece.

    RCA VICTOR. Same Story.

    Capitol. Controversy over the quality of certain pressings and digitally restored to vinyl or CD exists, but only among Sinatraphiles. Once again, the vinyl has little commercial value, despite its value to lovers of the "proper sound".

    Reprise. Early Reprise albums had a gatefold cover, making them something of a rarity after the company abandoned the format, yet the vinyl on some albums suffered from sonic problems which were not solved until the digital era, again making the CDs a better buy (in the long run.)

    The bottom line of course is the same as the Beta VS VHS war in video. Super Beta may have been better, but VHS was cheaper, and had many more films offered in that format. (now disc burning of DVDs has made both formats obsolete.)

    I would conclude by saying that unless you already own a high-quality turntable, and have access to replacement cartridges and needles, that vinyl has considerably less $ value than CDs.

    Don't overestimate the value of an LP collection, whether you are buying - or perhaps insuring your records. Dealers hold them in very low regard - something to be overpriced for suckers.

    (I say all of this in spite of the fact that I have a large vinyl collection.)
    NICK
    Old School Teacher

  2. #2
    Ronald Sarbo's Avatar
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    Nick: What you say is true but you can't put a value on the memories a collection holds.

    When I look at and play the records in my collection it takes me back to various times in my life. The happiness or sadness of those times.

    I think of the anticipation and excitement of waiting for new Sinatra albums and singles. The joy of hearing them for the first time.

    I remember what it was like to play them.....right after coming home from hearing and seeing him in concert.....at Radio City, Carnegie Hall, Nassau Coliseum, Garden State Art Center, Bally's AC or the Sands AC.

    That was and always will be.....PRICELESS.

  3. #3
    Guest
    << When I look at and play the records in my collection it takes me back to various times in my life. The happiness or sadness of those times >>

    Exactly, Vinyl holds so many memories, there was nothing more exciting than buying a new release on LP or single, the detail in the record sleeves and inserts I would read them over and over..and maybe the chance to get it on coloured vinyl, a picture cover..much more exciting than Cd's..

    A lot more shops are returning to selling more Vinyl too I believe.

  4. #4
    Guest
    does anyone know which of the original reprise albums had gatefold
    covers.the only earlier ones i own are i remember tommy,sinatra-basie
    and the concert sinatra.i love vinyl and am trying to re collect all my
    sinatras in this form.along with many people, i foolishly disposed of
    my collection at the dawn of the cd age.

  5. #5
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Sarbo View Post
    you can't put a value on the memories a collection holds.
    Great observation, Ron.

    I disposed of nearly all my vinyl some years ago for reasons of practicality, but I treasure the few issues I held on to for sentimental reasons: the first LP my Dad purchased, the first one I bought for myself, etc.

    When I first began to listen to Sinatra, circa 1960, a very dear uncle (the father of a cousin who is a sometime golfing buddy of Rick's) loaned his collection of LP's to me—every Capitol and Columbia album ever issued up to that date. My Uncle Frank has been gone a long time, and I believe the family disposed of his collection, but I so wish I had asked for those records. We had a very special connection when it came to Frank Sinatra's music. As it is, I'm reminded of him every time I hear one of those songs.

  6. #6
    Taylor's Avatar
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    Ron summed it up nicely. It's not the dollar value, it's the "sentimental" value of vinyl.

    I have in total about 560 records. With the exception of 50 or so, I inherited them from family members. They were passed down thru the generations. For me to have LP's that my great-grandparents listened to for years... I really treasure that. I have my father's record collection that I'll NEVER part with.

    You cant put a price on everything.
    Last edited by Taylor; 03-22-2007 at 10:29 AM.
    Per Angusta Ad Augusta

  7. #7
    Ace917's Avatar
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    I've been transferring my vinyl to CDs for the past several years. I scan the cover and scan the notes on the back and transfer them to a CD-sized booklet. So, I have a miniature version of the cover on the front of the CD, and my text recognition software allows me to massage the liner notes however I like. I use a pop/scratch filter to minimize the extraneous noise, and then I have a copy that won't wear out. It takes a little time, but it's worth it.

    I have some LPs inherited from my great aunt's collection, including most of the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra & Chorus releases on the Met label, and they're priceless. ♪
    Pack a small bag....

  8. #8
    Nick in Toronto's Avatar
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    Right on!

    It's gratifying to hear that other members hold dear the vinyl that I also inherited and one-by-collected. I also agree whole heartedly with MMM (Martin) that GOOD vinyl is the best source for sound in the Capitol Vaults and to a lesser degree in the Reprise vaults. I wouldn't trade mine for anything, and including FS, Jazz, Classical, and a few Peter Sellars type comedy albums, I'm ashamed to quote how many I have.

    My point was entirely to educate the newer members on the MARKET value of vinyl, in the wake of several posts quoting extraordinary prices for these items.

    Lets be specific: If a nearly complete collection of the vinyl FS library became available on the auction block, or in a Rare record shop, who among us would need more than a handfull of the discs for replacement purposes or because we didn't already own good vinyl copies of them? The Columbia vinyl yields only about 1/3 of the existing recordings, and many are dreadful sounding distortions. Day by Day with Bongos on Come Back to Sorrento? RCA was just as neglectful in their LP and 45EP re-issues. Capitol was the worst offender, offering first the lovely grey label issues, but later slashing the Concept Albums, and changing the sound to the infamous DU_OPHNIC STEREO. So only a small fraction of the Capitol heritage is really up to the mark - in terms of what is out there on the used Market. Reprise had the spotty recording issues early on, despite the wonderful gatefold Covers, and different pressings meant different quality.

    My intent was to alert the newer members of the "real" market values of vinyl; not to demean in any way its sentimental value to those of us lucky enough to get the GOOD vinyl.

    I treasure mine, but I don't kid myself about what it is worth. So anyone considering buying used vinyl should educate themselves on what was great sonically, and what was tampered-with trash.

    As the years pass, more and more vinyl ends up at The Salvation Army, and Goodwill, and most of these offerings are damaged by our standards, either by neglect, or bad needles, yet the Rare Record dealers are out there, ready to locate the good stuff, and scalp the true Sinatraphiles. (eg. I paid a whopping $35 for Love Is Kick back in the middle 1970s)

    My message is just Caveat Emptor!
    NICK
    Old School Teacher

  9. #9
    Guest
    Like many here, I've inherited quite a few LP's from my family members... mostly Opera & Jazz. They are, as everyone said, priceless. I never listen to them, though. I buy CD's to listen to. Maybe once I get a good turntable I'll go back to the LP's. I love the crackling sound. That alone is priceless.

    Hey Ace, how'd you do that note symbol? I've tried to paste symbols before and they've come out something like this: []

  10. #10
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    Geek's answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonni Brasco View Post
    Hey Ace, how'd you do that note symbol?
    I don't know how Ace did it, but the simplest way is to copy and paste from a document or web page which uses a Unicode font. You can also do it manually by typing the following into your post, exactly as shown:

    &#9834;

    That's seven characters: ampersand (&), hash symbol (#), four digits (9834), and semicolon (;). The result will be:


  11. #11
    Guest
    Wow! How..... clever


  12. #12
    Ace917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonni Brasco View Post
    Hey Ace, how'd you do that note symbol?
    I just did ALT+13... like this ♪

    You have to use the numeric keypad, tho... it won't work using the keyboard numbers. Macs have a different way of doing it, and it's a little more involved but not much.
    Pack a small bag....

  13. #13
    Rhodalee's Avatar
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    Bob, well that did not work, as you can see. Well, now it did work, I did it wrong.

    Ace, I don't have 13.

    Rhodalee
    Last edited by Rhodalee; 03-22-2007 at 03:30 PM.
    Rhoda
    In memory of my Jesse and my Eric.

  14. #14
    Ace917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodalee View Post
    Ace, I don't have 13.
    If you're on a PC, hold down the ALT key, then press 1 then 3 on the numeric keypad. I don't know if that sequence will work on a Mac. You would probably have to use the numeric keyboard embedded in the alphabet characters, but I doubt that it would work even then. Macs are funny that way, and Bob's sequence is the answer... don't forget the semi-colon at the end.
    Pack a small bag....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace917 View Post
    I just did ALT+13... like this ♪
    Ok, but it won't work in all versions of Windows or with all browsers. I won't go into the technicalities.

    Rhoda: Make sure NumLock is on. Then hold down Alt while typing 13 on the numeric keypad, then release Alt. (This is for PC's only.)

  16. #16
    Rhodalee's Avatar
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    I have a laptop PC, not a Mac. When I do it your way, Ace nothing happens.

    ♪ works on my PC, Bob's way.

    My laptop is nuts, I cannot find the NumLock.

    Rhodalee
    Last edited by Rhodalee; 03-22-2007 at 03:57 PM.
    Rhoda
    In memory of my Jesse and my Eric.

  17. #17
    Guest
    Ace's way didn't work for me either, I must make a ....note.

  18. #18
    Guest
    Ok, let's see... ♪

    Ooooh, kewl! Thanks, guys, I'll be using this one now. The ALT+13 doesn't work on my laptop either. It might be because there is no Num Lock on it.

  19. #19
    MMM's Avatar
    MMM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonni Brasco View Post
    I love the crackling sound.

    I love vinyl, but I DON'T love the crackling sound. Good pressings, in nice condition, shouldn't have that, or it should be at a minimum...

    When I see how hard it is to get a gray label Sinatra/Capitol LP (for instance) in nice shape, it kinda makes me sick. There's a lot of those records out there, but they're usually in not so great shape, and the really nice ones are hard to come by. It's not that difficult to take even reasonable care of records, but some of these didn't even get the bare minimum. The crackling from that abuse sounds like a fireplace! They didn't start life that way though - those gray label Capitols were usually pretty quiet pressings.

    Rant over...

  20. #20
    MMM's Avatar
    MMM
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve.s.sheff View Post
    does anyone know which of the original reprise albums had gatefold
    covers.the only earlier ones i own are i remember tommy,sinatra-basie
    and the concert sinatra.i love vinyl and am trying to re collect all my
    sinatras in this form.along with many people, i foolishly disposed of
    my collection at the dawn of the cd age.

    Those are from when Frank owned Reprise outright, though Sinatra's Sinatra seems to me to have come from period when the company was being partially sold to Warners. Anyway, the albums originally available with gatefold covers, then changed to regular covers, are :

    I Remember Tommy
    Sinatra and Swingin' Brass
    All Alone
    Sinatra/Basie
    The Concert Sinatra
    Sinatra's Sinatra

    Also, Swing Along With Me/Sinatra Swings originally had a glossy front cover, and a two color rear (instead of black and white). There were not gatefold though.
    Last edited by MMM; 03-22-2007 at 07:11 PM.

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